B13 DNA (DF27) R1b-BY19092: Hoare of Greens Norton

There is a FamilyTreeDNA R1b-DF27 SNP Pack. R1b-DF27 covers all the branching from there down to the current terminal SNP. But this area of the phylogenetic tree is highly volatile with every experimental tree showing different branching. This SNP Pack is the most economical yDNA SNP test option if your yDNA STR values are matching strongly in this group and you wish to verify your SNP is also strongly matching. If your SNP Pack results match, you can simply tag along with the other BigY tests in this group and avoid ordering BigY yourself. These needs to be verified with someone doing this SNP Pack and comparing it to the multiple BigY results.

We have two tested members in this group for BigY SNPs and two with y111 STRs and one at y37. More testers on more branches are required. Especially to differentiate as y37 still has non-haplogroup STR matches. The testing covers 2 of the 3 sub-groups here. A third, new, BigY tester from the third sub-group is supposedly in progress.

ySTR Modal

This group has very common STR marker values matching many in the European community . At 37 STR markers, members of this family branch match as close to each other as to many unrelated testers. 67 or 111 tested STR markers is a first step to get refinement into this group. Mostly because they exhibit a null at DYS425 which, based on FTDNA's ((GD) calculation, removes them from matching any others. More need to test BigY and y111. (note: the new BigY-500 test includes the y111 test.)

There is no publicly available display of marker comparison between branch members. DNA Test members can view a subset in the original FamilyTreeDNA DNA Results Project page when logged in. Otherwise, the complete capture is behind member login in a spreadsheet. Which has more details due to some testing with companies other than FTDNA. Due to the MRCA of between 300 to 500 years ago, STR matching is weaker and thus a modal cannot be reliably calculated until many more test (if ever).

With two tested to y67 and beyond and one BigY tested with lower STR marker value extraction by yFull, all are showing the null at DYS425. Even the yFull BAM analysis extracted a DYS425 null value. (FTDNA does not use infinite alleles method to calculate the GD and so the null contributes a GD of 12 or higher at y67 and above and thus removes all matches at y67 and higher other than those with the null. Without that null, they would likely have more matches at y67 and above. See the FTDNA DYS425 Null project and Peters Pioneers Clan Colla for more information on the null and its processing.

Oddly, one of our testers, even though only an FTDNA GD of 2 from each of the other testers, only has the other two testers on their y37 match list. So there must be two values in their y37 that are off from almost all other testers. Eaech of the other testers with many matches has a GD of 2 with this more unique tester. And that is a true 2 (not infinite alleles). But those 4 markers different from the other two testers, even though different only by one, is unique enough to pull them out from matching all the others at y37. So could the tester with more unique STR values be closer to the modal and the other two are displaying collapsing toward the other haplogroups? One of the testers have an MRCA from 500 years ago compared to the other two. The other two MRCA is around 300 years ago. It is the more distant tester that has the more unique markers (part of B12). In fact, our B12 tester was part of the project for several years and exhibited no matches at y37 and above. We had not created a singlet page for them at that time. It was only when David G tested 2 years later and match that we began to see the issue.

ySNP Haplogroup

This group is in the R1b-DF27 subclade. And specifically now R1b-Y87555 as of mid-2018. This is 3 haplogroups lower in the tree than when the first BigY results were returned in the Fall of 2016. Given the two BigY testers, they have formed their own haplogroup and pulled away from the Hankins tester and others. With pre-BigY-500 processing, they had a dozen BigY matches. Now just their own group solely. As only one of the two BigY testers uploaded to ytree and yfull, this new terminal is not appearing there. In fact, much of the BigY structure around and below the haplogroup R1b-BY19092 from summer 2017 is not there

The first two charts are the FTDNA BigY trees: Block and Internal. Both are private to BigY and yDNA testers; respectively. We have not captured and shown the FTDNA Public tree for R-Y87555. FTDNA has the most structure and are the only ones to push down all the way to R-Y87555. The third and fourth charts are for the yTree.net R-FGC22209 and yfull.com R-5076 clades from Jan 2019. Both represent haplogroup R-5072 in the FTDNA chart.. Each of these latter sites requires the tester to individually submit to be included. Only one BigY tester submitted to both. Once they both submit, more structure of the sub-clade may develop on those trees.

In Fall 2016, there are two additional testers who also reside in the original R1b-Y5072 / Y5058* terminal haplogroup on FamilyTreeDNA (and now also appearing on yTree but are not part of our surname project nor share the surname nor STR values). Interestingly, the surname project they are part of (Hankins) has 50 members with virtually all tracing back to a single ancestor in the early 1700's America. But as the STR values are not matching, this is likely not an NPE event branching from the family here. As of Winter 2017, with the new BigY reprocessing, the other near matches have dropped out and are no longer visible. So just with the "deeper" (more extensive) SNP processing, the others have been pulled away.

Everything below R1b-DF27 is in flux. In fact, it is only recently being flushed out due to Sequencing testing. There are many, many parallel branches just below R1b-DF27 and there is a strong correlation of the STR values of all R1b-DF27 members as well. Deep SNP and STR testing is required to differentiate genealogical time frame family branches in this group. R1b-DF27 is below R1b-P312 and parallel to R1b-U152; which are described in the Haplogroup R1b-P312 parent page. By the older, YCC long-form "string" designation still used in ISOGG's yDNA phylogenetic tree of 2016, R1b-DF27 is known as 2a further below R1b-P312(2016) and is a terminal. In the new YCC SNP designation terminology, the path down from R1b-P312 is P312 > DF27. This is ISOGG's path designation and not the newer ytree.net which has some additional branch points below R1b-P312 before reaching R1b-DF27. Specifically, ytree.net as of Fall 2016 has the path from R1b-P312 to the terminal R1b-Y5072 as:
All the Z haplogroup's shown in this path are missing from yfull and many had not been included in FTDNA's tree either but are recently appearing.

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